Comments on: My Verdict on the Bloom Box http://www.getreallist.com/my-verdict-on-the-bloom-box.html Deal With Reality or It Will Deal With You Mon, 02 Jan 2012 04:09:51 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: John Dune http://www.getreallist.com/my-verdict-on-the-bloom-box.html/comment-page-1#comment-2109 John Dune Sun, 07 Mar 2010 18:07:56 +0000 http://www.getreallist.com/?p=1546#comment-2109 Thanks for a breath of fresh air - an attempt at some decent scientific skepticism. However, I think your analysis is flawed: you're basing it on the assumption that a 100kW unit will cost $800K, but that's just what Bloom's first hand-picked customers paid for the first set of test units. Bloom has to recover its research investment relatively quickly to keep its investors happy. This cost may bear no resemblance to what the units will actually cost in production. I was also puzzled by Sridhar's affirmation of Stahl's solar power comment. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, I guess that what Sridhar is thinking is to use rooftop solar to run his cells backwards to make hydrogen, which is stored locally for use when the sun goes down. This "running backwards" angle is high on Bloom's list of their advantages over other power sources. However it's hard to see it beating just charging up some batteries directly, in terms of both cost and efficiency. Finally, I can't shake this nagging thought. I have great respect for Colin Powell. But (his association with KPC&B aside) why was he picked as a flagship speaker at their grand unveiling? He was fooled once into believing in non-existent WMD; I hope he's not being fooled again. Sridhar's breathless self-promotion (at the unveiling) as the world's energy messiah doesn't help. Thanks for a breath of fresh air – an attempt at some decent scientific skepticism. However, I think your analysis is flawed: you’re basing it on the assumption that a 100kW unit will cost $800K, but that’s just what Bloom’s first hand-picked customers paid for the first set of test units. Bloom has to recover its research investment relatively quickly to keep its investors happy. This cost may bear no resemblance to what the units will actually cost in production.

I was also puzzled by Sridhar’s affirmation of Stahl’s solar power comment. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, I guess that what Sridhar is thinking is to use rooftop solar to run his cells backwards to make hydrogen, which is stored locally for use when the sun goes down. This “running backwards” angle is high on Bloom’s list of their advantages over other power sources. However it’s hard to see it beating just charging up some batteries directly, in terms of both cost and efficiency.

Finally, I can’t shake this nagging thought. I have great respect for Colin Powell. But (his association with KPC&B aside) why was he picked as a flagship speaker at their grand unveiling? He was fooled once into believing in non-existent WMD; I hope he’s not being fooled again. Sridhar’s breathless self-promotion (at the unveiling) as the world’s energy messiah doesn’t help.

]]> By: Chris http://www.getreallist.com/my-verdict-on-the-bloom-box.html/comment-page-1#comment-2106 Chris Sat, 06 Mar 2010 21:58:07 +0000 http://www.getreallist.com/?p=1546#comment-2106 It's not entirely clear from the available information, but it appears that part of the Bloom Box's greater efficiency derives from reusing heat that is normally wasted in fuel cells. So the Bloom Box might not be appropriate for cogen applications, where other fuel cell designs are. It’s not entirely clear from the available information, but it appears that part of the Bloom Box’s greater efficiency derives from reusing heat that is normally wasted in fuel cells. So the Bloom Box might not be appropriate for cogen applications, where other fuel cell designs are.

]]> By: pond http://www.getreallist.com/my-verdict-on-the-bloom-box.html/comment-page-1#comment-2105 pond Sat, 06 Mar 2010 21:47:24 +0000 http://www.getreallist.com/?p=1546#comment-2105 I agree with you about Lesley Stahl (an awful reporter, who persists in these know-nothing reports on things technological) and the hype over the Bloom Box. If all their claims are true, then it represents a breakthrough, but nothing like the breakthrough people are hoping for. And yet your own analysis failed to mention the potential cogen these boxes could provide. Honda is manufacturing cogen now, based on natural gas. All these fuel cells need a lot of heat to get the reaction going, and to sustain it. In colder climates, the Bloom Box could provide heat for the building as well as significant contributions to electrical usage. In the summer, I suppose a cleverly-designed system could output its waste heat to thermal mass, storing it up for winter. Like you, though, I'd rather see wind turbines and solar panels go up over our neighborhoods. I agree with you about Lesley Stahl (an awful reporter, who persists in these know-nothing reports on things technological) and the hype over the Bloom Box. If all their claims are true, then it represents a breakthrough, but nothing like the breakthrough people are hoping for.

And yet your own analysis failed to mention the potential cogen these boxes could provide. Honda is manufacturing cogen now, based on natural gas. All these fuel cells need a lot of heat to get the reaction going, and to sustain it. In colder climates, the Bloom Box could provide heat for the building as well as significant contributions to electrical usage. In the summer, I suppose a cleverly-designed system could output its waste heat to thermal mass, storing it up for winter.

Like you, though, I’d rather see wind turbines and solar panels go up over our neighborhoods.

]]> By: Bill Hodge http://www.getreallist.com/my-verdict-on-the-bloom-box.html/comment-page-1#comment-2098 Bill Hodge Thu, 04 Mar 2010 00:48:54 +0000 http://www.getreallist.com/?p=1546#comment-2098 Thanks for a thoughtful analysis. The last time I heard a media hype like this it was for the "It" that became the Segway. We all know what happened there and it was the same group of people. I guess this company won't be doing an IPO soon after this media hype or if they are I hope the SEC is all over them for pre-selling. Thanks for a thoughtful analysis.

The last time I heard a media hype like this it was for the “It” that became the Segway.

We all know what happened there and it was the same group of people.

I guess this company won’t be doing an IPO soon after this media hype or if they are I hope the SEC is all over them for pre-selling.

]]> By: Readings: Tuesday 2 March 2010 GregorWeekly http://www.getreallist.com/my-verdict-on-the-bloom-box.html/comment-page-1#comment-2095 Readings: Tuesday 2 March 2010 GregorWeekly Wed, 03 Mar 2010 02:49:46 +0000 http://www.getreallist.com/?p=1546#comment-2095 [...] My Verdict on the Bloom Box: Chris Nelder, GetRealList.com. [...] [...] My Verdict on the Bloom Box: Chris Nelder, GetRealList.com. [...]

]]> By: Greg Robie http://www.getreallist.com/my-verdict-on-the-bloom-box.html/comment-page-1#comment-2092 Greg Robie Tue, 02 Mar 2010 10:35:47 +0000 http://www.getreallist.com/?p=1546#comment-2092 This analysis contains what my gut sense was after reading a bit about the Bloom Box. The efficacy afforded the smart grid in this analysis feels less rational as I have less trust than Chris that social cohesion will continue to be effected once the current flash-frozen collapse of fractional reserve banking thaws. And BTW, a review of the latest on Arctic methane strongly suggests that the methane time bomb has been detonated and, therefore, the Doomsday clock has struck its last tick. This analysis contains what my gut sense was after reading a bit about the Bloom Box. The efficacy afforded the smart grid in this analysis feels less rational as I have less trust than Chris that social cohesion will continue to be effected once the current flash-frozen collapse of fractional reserve banking thaws. And BTW, a review of the latest on Arctic methane strongly suggests that the methane time bomb has been detonated and, therefore, the Doomsday clock has struck its last tick.

]]> By: gisher http://www.getreallist.com/my-verdict-on-the-bloom-box.html/comment-page-1#comment-2089 gisher Tue, 02 Mar 2010 03:00:29 +0000 http://www.getreallist.com/?p=1546#comment-2089 I think fuel cells may just be the trick, after 10 more years of intense development. Right now, you might as well put the Apple logo on the side of every Bloom Box, and buy stock. It'll sell like hotcakes. Status baby, status. I think fuel cells may just be the trick, after 10 more years of intense development. Right now, you might as well put the Apple logo on the side of every Bloom Box, and buy stock. It’ll sell like hotcakes. Status baby, status.

]]> By: Please... http://www.getreallist.com/my-verdict-on-the-bloom-box.html/comment-page-1#comment-2088 Please... Tue, 02 Mar 2010 01:12:03 +0000 http://www.getreallist.com/?p=1546#comment-2088 You are so right! People have very short memories, or none at all! Ballard raised north of $1b between Ford, Daimler, and various public offerings. $400m! Bah! Peanuts. Between 1997-2000 Ballard Power Systems was going to replace every vehicle on the road. Things like this are hard. Incumbents are strong, but gains can be made. However, Bloom's marketing showed just how clueless MSM can be. You are so right! People have very short memories, or none at all! Ballard raised north of $1b between Ford, Daimler, and various public offerings. $400m! Bah! Peanuts.

Between 1997-2000 Ballard Power Systems was going to replace every vehicle on the road. Things like this are hard. Incumbents are strong, but gains can be made. However, Bloom’s marketing showed just how clueless MSM can be.

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